030. For Love or Money: Getting Engaged, Married & Managing Money with Your Partner

Lifestyle

Jan 17

Say "I do" to managing finances with your partner

Amber shares the story of her engagement to her partner, Justin, and how to open the conversation around money with a partner. You'll learn 5 tips on enjoying your engagement (beyond wedding planning) and 4 simple frameworks for mini-money meetings with your partner to learn about each other financially. From addressing financial infidelity to setting money goals as a couple, you'll gain valuable insights on how to build a strong, transparent relationship together.

In today's episode, we cover the following:

Amber and Justin's relationship story, from the first date (1:47)

Amber and Justin's engagement story and choosing the ring (7:47)

The Old Money guide to getting engaged (15:56)

Step #1 to enjoying your engagement: celebrate! (17:57)

Step #2: Insuring your ring (19:32)

Step #3: Drafting your prenup with an attorney (20:56)

Step #4: Get more intentional about your relationship (25:13)

Step #5: Money meetings with your partner (28:27)

Mailbox money question: I would love to hear your take on a successful woman merging finances or not with a man you'll marry (37:15)

Mini-money meeting #1: The starting point (40:47)

Mini-money meeting #2: The vision of the future (46:55)

Mini-money meeting #3: Shared responsibilities (52:05)

Mini-money meeting #4: Execution (54:16)

TRANSCRIPT

Amber F. (00:05)
Hello, rich girls. Welcome back to Old Money, the podcast for women building the trust fund they wish they were born with. You know who I am? It's me. It's your host, Amber Frankhuizen, soon to be Evenson. I'm so excited about this podcast episode. I am also very flattered. I put up a poll on my Instagram Stories because I got a lot of dms when I didn't go into my engagement and all the details about it on the last podcast. People being like, are you serious? You're not telling us? So I put up a poll and really flattered that literally 10% of our small but mighty audience all responded, yes. Give me the details right away. But of course, I can't just make it a details podcast. I really wanted to make it a value add and help somebody out there if they needed it. And so today's episode is all about not just my story of getting engaged, but how Justin and I got to where we are, how to deal with talking about money or managing money with a partner, no matter what stage of the relationship that you're in and really looking at the positives and the pitfalls and the challenges of doing so.

Amber F. (01:12)
And I want to structure it out in a really easy way. In fact, Justin and I talked about this last night. We're going to follow this same framework to kind of revisit where we're at with our finances as we move forward in this next stage of our relationship. So anyway, I'm sitting here with you. This is a very authentic relationship if you're one of the people that listens, right? When the podcast drops on Tuesday morning, it's currently morning, I have my coffee with me, and I'm drinking it with you because it's kind of a cozy episode. Like, it's a little bit more personal. So I wanted to be comfortable and cozy on this cold winter day in San Diego. And let's get into it. So, just to give you some background on Justin and Mai's relationship story, we've been together for three years. We met on hinge, and on our first date, literally our very first date, we were at dinner, and I was apparently unconscious until this very moment because this is really the one thing that I can remember. But I looked at Justin like my eyes wide open. I looked at him, and in my brain I thought, oh, fuck. This is either the man I'm going to marry, or this guy is going to break my heart. And fortunately for the both of us, it was the former.

Amber F. (02:21)
Because ever since that dinner, we've been inseparable. But the relationship has not been all sunshine and roses or diamonds. And as Lisa Vanderpump would say, we have walked through a lot of fire in the last three years. We've had so many different things that we've had to tackle together as a team. My health issues, Justin, health issues, family stuff, career stuff. And it's been really hard at times. And for me, I really am proud of the way that we've navigated it all. In a lot of ways, the things that happened forced us to evolve in our relationship really quickly. So we went through a compressed timeline really quick. Justin calls it a DTR event that defined the relationship event. And we had those happening left, right, and center for our relationship. Within six months, major things were happening. Like, major, major things. And it was a great lesson, and it was a great skill set builder because we had to learn how to communicate really openly and honestly about really heavy things really quickly. So for us, there was never any game playing.

Amber F. (03:22)
There was never any of that weird time. I knew Justin and I had talked about we were going to be together forever within three months of our relationship. So when people ask me if the engagement was a surprise, no, it wasn't a surprise in the general sense. Like, I wasn't surprised to know that we were on that path and to add to that, so just backing up again to the beginning of the relationship, too, at that three month period when we knew we were going to be together, it occurred to me that months, maybe a year before that period of time, I had somewhere in an Evernote, a note about all of the things I was looking for in a partner again, this is why I'm so big on all of these record keeping systems, right? Like, all of my stuff is in one place. I have a list for everything. If it's my car's maintenance log or it's the things I'm manifesting in my future partner log, like, I have it all written down, and it's going to be in one single space. Go back and listen to episode number five if you need help on organizing your life like a CEO. Anyway, we're sitting in Palm Springs, and we're having this huge revelation conversation about us being together forever. And I thought, oh, my God.

Amber F. (04:28)
Oh, my God. I literally wrote down what I was manifesting in a partner. I need to see what I nailed. And when I tell you there were 25 to 30 things on that list, and Justin was it to a t. To A-T-I had been thinking about for so long before I met Justin, who I wanted to be in a partnership, and I started acting as that person before I even met Justin. I had to up level a lot before I could even bring somebody like Justin into my life. And honestly, I'm still to this day, amazed with the specificity of the same things that I was looking for in a partner and that Justin brought to our relationship. Now, one of the things that I just learned recently is that in my human design, which is something I'm kind of obsessed with, human design is a basis or a study of your astrology. I ching kabbalah, the chakras, all these different collaborations of different ideas, and it gives you your human design. I don't know what to call it. Like profile. I'm a manifesto. And it's different energy methods that help you navigate the world, and it tells you how you respond to the world, how people respond to you. I don't know. I can't explain it in just a sentence.

Amber F. (05:43)
Please go look it up. However, there is an app called my human design. I think it's from the woman who does to be magnetic. And in your human design type, they will tell you the best way for you to manifest mine is by being very specific. So I accidentally followed my human design, and, whoops, it all came true. And so I tell you this to say, as you're looking at, if you're not in a partnership yet or you want to improve your partnership, you can't just be looking on the outside for things to call in. It has to change on the inside so that you can receive it as well. And so a couple of my mantras when we were dating, and it was very early, was that I will hold space, but no expectations. In fact, I said that to Justin about our very first planned meeting date. He said, I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it. I have something at work that's spiraling. And I said, that's totally cool. I'll hold space, but no expectations. And I think that gave just a lot of breathing room for us to navigate being together or not being together without disappointment or anything like that. Then the other thing, and this is something that we still talk about to this day, is unconditional positive regard.

Amber F. (06:48)
And I just decided that in our relationship together, especially when it was very young, I was going to give Justin unconditional positive regard in everything that we did, which essentially meant I was just going to think the best and give him the benefit of the doubt. And as we've gotten farther and farther into the relationship and if you're in a relationship, you can probably relate. That gets harder and harder to do because you're like, fuck, they should know these things by now, or, I'm frustrated about the same thing again. But I always come back to that. It is my saving grace in any relationship of unconditional positive regard. Somebody at your work messed up on something, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they didn't understand the directions. Maybe they didn't know the deadline, whatever. So you can approach it more gently, and then you can make decisions after you get clarity, after you can ask questions. So that framework for me worked really, really well, and it's worked in our relationship as we've continued to grow and matriculate through these different conversations that we've had.

Amber F. (07:44)
And we talk a lot about money in this house, let me tell you that. So when we're talking about money, let me tell you an interesting story, too, as it relates to the engagement ring. So, in January of 2023, we went to merrow fine in Del Mar just to take a peek, just to look. I love the style of their rings and their esthetic. It's a little bit edgier, but they also have some classic pieces. So we just went for a quick appointment to look. And the stones that we saw were not interesting to us. There were a lot of antique stones settings that I wasn't too crazy about. And so we just looked, and it was fine, but nothing really came of it. And then we had the conversation about getting a lab grown diamond because they're more ubiquitous in the market right now.

Amber F. (08:24)
They're the same as a natural diamond. From the complexity of them, you can get great quality diamonds for a great price, and blah, blah, blah. Well, as we were talking about it, justin made the decision about halfway through the year, and he wasn't interested in getting a lab grown diamond, actually, for three main reasons. And I had just chatted with him about this last night. One of the main reasons why he wanted to switch away from a lab grown and go back to a natural diamond was because, of course, de Beers, the biggest diamond company in the world, started flooding the market with all of these lab grown diamonds. And Justin and I believe that the economy of the diamond market will be that although people are saying, oh, lab grown diamonds know, equivalent to natural now, we know for a fact they don't hold their value. And on top of that, I think that their economy is going to get manipulated by the powers that be in this industry. So over time, they might even go by the wayside of, like, a cubic zirconium, people might change their impressions on them because we know that De Beers is one of the most powerful marketing forces in the world, and say what you will about that. But for Justin, he also wanted to buy something that was irreplaceable. It's something traditional for him that was really important.

Amber F. (09:37)
His mom has a natural diamond. He wanted me to have one as well. And for him, it was a lot about the sentimentality of the whole process of getting something that was valued. And as important as he made this milestone in our life to be, which I thought was really nice. And honestly, I gave him carte blanche to pick the stone. So we went back to marrow fine. In, I think, like, fall of 2023 to look at some stones, and I'm just not a detail person. Okay, that's not true. I totally am. But as the stones, I'm not educated about it, so I was very overwhelmed. We looked at three stones. I was being asked to make a decision, and I said, absolutely not. Like, I'm tapping out of this. Justin, I'm putting this back on you. So he went and met with them to pick the stone, but I specified the ring.

Amber F. (10:21)
I wanted a matte gold, very simple but modern version of their typical engagement ring that they do at Merrill. Fine. So instead of rounded corners on the ring band itself, it's kind of cut off so it looks much more modern and sharp. And then, of course, the matte gold was something that I really had to fight to get as well. There was a lot of conversation about getting a two toned ring. I'd love to know if any of my friends out there have a two toned ring with a gold band with white gold prongs or platinum prongs. But to me, it wasn't giving the esthetic that I was looking for. And I was told that having a gold ring would really degrade the quality of the look of the diamond because the quality that Justin got was so nice. But I don't think that it did it all, honestly. I think it looks absolutely stunning the way that it is. You cannot see the band through this dome, especially in the proper lighting. It looks absolutely brilliant. It's got so much flash. And so was I surprised about the engagement? No.

Amber F. (11:19)
I knew the ring was coming because I had been working on designing it with Justin. He really handled the bulk of it. But at the end of the day, this is something that we had talked about, and I think that that's still a surprising concept to a lot of people. But I find it to be so surprising that people would be getting engaged and not having had discussions about it? What does that mean in your relationship? If you're so surprised that somebody's on bended knee with a ring and you've never talked about it before? Do they know what you want for your ring? Do they know what you want for your engagement, your wedding, et cetera? So our engagement day or week was really funny, actually, because I was an absolute monster to Justin about it all. I was on my way back from traveling from northern California, and so coming back on that first Saturday before Christmas, I had a whole bunch of things planned, like workout with my trainer and getting my lashes done, my nails done.

Amber F. (12:08)
And Justin was trying to convince me that there was a family photo shoot that his mom was planning, but I hadn't gotten any details from his mom. And his mom is the most organized, on it person that you've ever met in your life. So I knew something was a little fishy, but I was letting it happen. I actually recorded a video on my phone of me talking right after I had recorded that podcast to y'all that I did at the Langham hotel in Pasadena, calling Justin out, saying, Justin, I think you're being shady as hell, and I'm just putting this out there for records with timestamps that I think you're proposing on Saturday. So we'll go ahead and see.

Amber F. (12:42)
And so Justin did on Saturday, take me to this quote unquote, family photo shoot where nobody was there but us in La Jolla, right by where we both used to live and work, which is so crazy because Justin and I have had this life that has overlapped in so many ways, but we never met each other until we met each other. Like, for example, he worked on the same street within, I think, five shop fronts that his office was from the gym that I used to work out in when I used to live a block away from where his office was. We used to go to the same bars, we went to the same restaurants, we went to the same sporting events. We were in each other's areas and lives probably as tertiary characters in the background until we actually met. And so I always joke, like, when I get to heaven, if there's a God, I hope he shows me all of the playback footage of how we walked in the background of each other's lives before we actually met. So it was really special that he picked that place that was representative, know who we were before. And it's also a very aspirational place for us that we would like, to live. So he had poppy, our puppy, there. And it was really funny because Justin was early, and he had a photographer there, and the photographer was kind of, like, wandering around us. Justin was trying to get his attention.

Amber F. (13:58)
We had the dog. There was other dogs sniffing Poppy's butt. It was just hysterical. And at one point, Justin was looking for the photographer to pay attention to us, and the guy was checking his phone. And so Justin was looking at me and getting anxious, and he looks at me and he says, so I think things are going pretty good between us. And I just was dying laughing. And then, like, crouched down on the ground, like, calm poppy down. He looks at me and he goes, amber. And I was like, oh, do you want me to stand right here? And so it was just, like, a very light, very fun, just us moment. It wasn't very serious and heavy, and that was perfect. It was funny. I was laughing. There's a picture of me with my hands up by my face, like, covering my eyes, and it looks like I'm being like, oh, my God. But I'm actually just cracking up.

Amber F. (14:44)
So it was so much fun and so special. And after that, we went back to our place, and Justin had prepared for me this incredible, sentimental book with just the most amazing letter and thoughts and, oh, my God, it was amazing. I was sobbing. Oh, I also forgot to mention at the engagement, like, where we were, Justin got a dog tag for Poppy with Poppy Evenson on it, and I actually started sobbing when he gave her that. So amazing. Obsessed. Anyway, so we had that. Then we went to lunch at Eddie V's in LA Jolla for some caviar and champagne, and then we had already Christmas brunch planned with the whole family, so we got to go immediately to see the family and celebrate with them, which was so special and lovely. So, all in all, the engagement was light and fun, and I'm so happy that it happened on the front end of our holiday vacation. So we really had a lot of time to sink into enjoying it and being like, oh, my gosh, this is real.

Amber F. (15:43)
So it was so nice. We've been able to celebrate with so many of our friends and family, and during that time, when we were off work, I was really doing a lot of googling. And this is really what brings me to the crux of this whole episode and what I was really shocked to find. So we're just engaged, right? I'm, like, lounging on the couch. We're watching football. I'm, like, on my phone. I'm not ready to start pinteresting wedding ideas or dresses, but I wanted to start googling what to do when you're engaged. I was wondering, first of all, if there was any etiquette. I want to get something for Justin's mom still to memorialize this whole moment, and was looking for ideas on that and then also looking for some. I don't know what I was looking for. Like, what are people doing when they get engaged? Like, what's the thing to do? Or I don't know what I was looking for, but I was shocked with what I found. Because every article about what to do when you get engaged was not about being engaged.

Amber F. (16:37)
It was about how to start planning a wedding. So, for example, this article says, start looking for venues, start a Pinterest board, start thinking about what dress you want to wear, work on your budget. And I'm like, okay, that's great, but that is wedding planning. That's not enjoying the engagement. That is a different stage. So all of these articles titled how to really enjoy your engagement or what to do when you're engaged are all about planning for the wedding. I really want to take a pause and be in this chapter that is such a unique chapter. After you're engaged and then you're married, you're never engaged again. I mean, if things go well, right, and hopefully you have a prenup in place, we'll get to that. My point is that enjoying the engagement means making it special and making it things that are unique that you can only do during this time period.

Amber F. (17:22)
So when everything else on the Internet was, like, set a budget, find a venue, I wanted to talk about some of the things that I've been doing that we've been doing that I believe are the old money guide to getting engaged. I have five things on my list that are five things that I've been doing, Justin and I have been doing, and I think that they would be really helpful, and that's going to kind of dovetail. Number five has, like, breakout segments, which are going to be helpful for you in a relationship at any stage of your relationship, not just when you're engaged. Okay, so here it is. The old money guide to getting engaged. Five things. The first thing is to celebrate. I don't think anybody should rush into wedding planning, like, take a beat. First of all, just as a value, I do not make any decisions when I'm emotional, and there's no more emotional time when you're swept up and caught up in the engagement and the excitement of it all that you'd be looking to make decisions? Absolutely not.

Amber F. (18:18)
So I believe a cooling off period is always really good. We talk about this, especially if you're an impulse spender and you're worried about going over budget for a wedding. Make sure that you're not emotional when you're making any decisions. And that's hard because everybody in your life is emotional. Every salesperson in the wedding industry is going to sweep you off your feet and make you feel like you are the only person who has ever been engaged in the history of time. So with that, I think that taking intentional time to celebrate and going slowly for us, it's really been about having dinners with specific people that are really important to us and spending time to share that story one on one. And yes, we have had a lot of people ask us, so what are the wedding plans? And just because people are asking you questions, that doesn't mean you need to have an answer prepared or have plans. And I think a lot of people get challenged when people are asking them questions. They feel pressured, but that's not the intent.

Amber F. (19:14)
People are just excited for you. And so it's okay to say we're not planning yet or we're not sure yet, but when we know, we'll let you know. And thank you so much for being excited for us. And so taking really intentional time to celebrate, I think, is really, really important. Step number two on the old money guide to getting engaged is insuring your ring. Okay. I am so grateful Justin took Care of the insurance for the ring for us. But I was reading on Reddit about this debate if people were insuring their ring or not. Like, I am an insurance Girly, I don't know. I don't like to take risks. Okay. I'm happy to have insurance paid for just in case anything goes wrong. I'd be devastated if anything happened to my ring, but at least I know that there's some help behind us if anything does happen. And one of the things I was reading on Reddit, as I was mentioning, was this woman who said I didn't want to insure my ring because of the cost. But I've had my ring for 18 years, and every year of 18 years, I've been freaked out about everything that could happen to it.

Amber F. (20:15)
So for me, paying for insurance is honestly just paying for peace of mind. I think that's a huge thing that people skip over. And also buying a safe, making sure that you have your GIa paperwork locked away, making sure that you have a place to put your ring if you're traveling. I think that's super important. If you don't already have a safe to put all of your important paper, like the pink slip to your car, your passport, your business formation paperwork, anything that you need, making sure that you're starting to set up your systems in your house as a partner or as a team, if you live with your partner.

Amber F. (20:47)
And I think having a safe and insurance are two really great ways to get that process started. Just for peace of mind, the next thing on the list is retaining an attorney to help you draft your prenup. Now, if you have questions about prenups, I have a whole episode with Natalie Alicia Goldberg. She's a family law attorney that specializes in helping women set up their prenups and design their life, because she says, and I think this is so brilliant, if you want to just go with what the law says, you're going to live a life by default. But if you want to have an exceptional life, you're going to need to live a life by design, which means you're going to need to set up your own marital constitution in doing so in a prenup.

Amber F. (21:27)
Okay. When you're getting married, all you're doing is getting the law involved in your personal relationship. And I mean that from a legal standpoint, from a financial standpoint, when you're married, everything that you earn after you're married is community property. So if you're somebody who, like me, likes peace of mind and likes to have conversations again, remember what I said. When things are not emotional, this is the way my friends, if you are going through, or you've known anyone going through a divorce, a breakup, and the emotions and the outrage and all of the feelings that come along with it, it is so hard for your brain to make good decisions when you're emotional because things like fight or flight, takeover, you guys know I talk about this all the time, but the way that your brain works to protect itself, it's trying to keep you safe all of the time.

Amber F. (22:14)
And what that often means is that you're going to make irrational decisions because your brain is compromised. So making rational decisions with your attorney for yourself in this partnership, when your mind is clear, when you have unconditional, positive regard for yourself and for your partner at this time, you can think much more clearly and get things laid out on the table. I think there's a really bad rap with prenups. I talk about this in the podcast, and it's actually, I think, one of the most powerful podcasts that I have recorded because there's so much valuable information that I recorded with Natalie. Just why people feel so icky or weird about prenups.

Amber F. (22:52)
I think a lot of it is our money stories growing up or that's only for the rich or oh, wow, if you get a prenup, that means you think you're getting divorced. I intend to stay married to Justin for the rest of my life, but I will still be getting a prenup because I have assets and a business and things that I want to make sure that if something does happen because you cannot plan life, that I feel secure in the fact that I will be able to take care of myself moving forward away from the relationship. God forbid that happens. So again, peace of mind, making decisions when you're not emotional and making sure you have the insurance to know that you're taken care of. If you know me, if you've listened to this podcast, you know that I am an encyclopedia about bravo, reality tv, real housewives, the whole nine yards. Do not put yourself in a Teresa judicia position. Do not be signing paperwork without having knowledge about what you're signing. Do not be an Erica Girardi and not understand your finances. Because if you're relying on somebody else to pay your Amex bill and something goes wrong and you no longer have access to that Amex, where are your savings? Where are your assets in your name?

Amber F. (24:01)
There's so many things. I mean, you can look at Tom and Ariana from Vanderpump rules. Ariana is suing Tom right now to force a sale of their house because he is refusing to sell. And I know they're not married, but if they had any agreement in place ahead of time, I don't just. I never thought Tom Sandoval would do this with Raquel. But you can't plan for the future. My point is that there are a million examples evident on reality tv alone of all of the ways that things could go wrong if you don't protect yourself upfront. And this is not about you versus your spouse. This is about you and your spouse versus the unknown of the future. And that's something Justin's huge on. And he's so helpful for me. Whenever we have a conflict or disagreement about resetting our focus on, it's me and him against the problem, not me and him against each other. And that's the thing that I think about a prenup as well. It's not you against your spouse. It's not you trying to get one over on your spouse.

Amber F. (25:00)
It's about you and your spouse against the unknown and protecting your dignity. And your values and the love and respect that you have for each other now in the future, for the unknown. The next thing on the old money guide to getting engaged. Number four, this is something that we did immediately, and thanks to Justin on this one as well, was getting even more intentional about your relationship asterisk in a very sustainable way. So the reason I think about it like that is because I think with weddings, there's a lot of crash diet mentality about weddings. People are rushing and frantic about getting their wedding ready and prepared and planned. People are frantic about fitting into their dress. They're crash dieting, they're working out with a trainer for the first time. It's like New Year's on steroids. They are doing all of these things to get super specific for the wedding.

Amber F. (25:53)
I don't care about the wedding, in fact TBD on what we'll do, but this is about getting more intentional about your relationship and prepping yourself for marriage. So there's a couple of different things that I'd recommend in this format. Number one would be really intentional, sustainable, whether it's date nights or specialness. Maybe it's time for you guys to plan some trips in advance. You're now engaged, you're in a new stage of your life. What are you doing to really make it intentional and celebrate? Plan your trips for the year. Get those date nights on the calendar. Justin and I do an alternating schedule for date nights where they're not just like going to a restaurant. We have to plan something for each other as a surprise that we'll go back and forth on.

Amber F. (26:35)
So date nights could be the thing that you're doing, maybe because if you're getting married in the church, I know certain religions offer or require rather marriage prep counseling, and we're not a part of a church or doing anything like that. But I kind of want to explore it. I'm just curious to know what do they talk about? Because as I imagine it, they take you through some conversations about different things, like your values, your plans for children, finances, all these different categories. I think that they kind of walk you through in those programs. And I think a little bit of counseling or support is always great as long as both people in the relationship have a growth mindset and they're open to outside positive feedback or support. I think that could be really know. One of the things that in speaking know. Having these conversations as we're going to get into number five, one of the first big trips that justin and I went on, like a big vacation, he surprised me on that trip by, he had ordered this deck of cards from Amazon that was like a question and answer deck for couples, and that actually sparked a lot of amazing conversations. So we'd bring a couple of them down to the pool and just do like three at a time.

Amber F. (27:48)
And it was super easy and not confrontational. It's not like hot topics, but it's kind of like, what did you want to be when you were growing up? And why? Or are you living the life that you thought you'd live at your age now? Or what are your ideas about having children? And so because it's a game, it kind of takes the pressure off of facilitating that conversation, especially if facilitating conversation is not something you have practice with. So that could be a really great date night or a really great way to deepen the intentionality in your relationship. I can look for. I'll ask Justin to find me the link for the Amazon cards of how to have that conversation. Because the next step on old money guide to getting engaged is having money meetings.

Amber F. (28:31)
And this is not just about wedding planning and wedding budgeting. I have a whole system, and I will put this up on social media of all of these different stages. I recommend having a whole bunch of different money meetings with different questions or prompts to do with your partner. As you're deepening this relationship in this new phase, whether you're engaged or whether you've just intended and decided, we are getting more serious. Like, let's start having these meetings, okay? Because I think in general, as you're going into a partnership with somebody and you're going to be talking about finances, you got to do some warm up practice rounds, okay? You can't just go to the Super bowl and start combining all of your finances and not having any framework around it. But I want to, before we get into that, talk about the positives and the pitfalls, okay? I mean, the positives are obvious of talking about money, right? You're going to avoid conflict.

Amber F. (29:22)
When working together, couples can achieve goals more quickly than you could alone. You get further faster. Think of it. If you have a goal to be a millionaire and you combine both of your net worths together, you might be over that threshold right then and there. Congratulations. Your goal is achieved. If you're looking at investing in real estate, for example, you might have two incomes to put towards the house or the down payment or whatever it might be. One person might have a vehicle, the other one doesn't. You can sell one, whatever it might be. You can get further, faster, and you can also deepen your emotional connection while you make this commitment to shared goals.

Amber F. (29:57)
Like having this team mentality is so important. I think the positives of having really good communication around money are more than just about avoiding conflict in the future, but it's about living your dream life. Okay, but the pitfalls, there's many because people are different. Your partner is not the same person as you. So you're listening to this podcast because you care about your financial future, being financially literate and healthy, but you don't know where your partner is at. I don't know where your partner is at. So the pitfalls of having these conversations is that you might have a reluctant partner. And here's what I'm going to say about that. All of these money conversations are very, very emotionally sensitive. There's a lot of emotions that people have about money.

Amber F. (30:41)
And who knows what your partner's money history is when you have money problems. It might include ego anxiety. There might be things about control or notions of marital roles. These programmed stories that people have been carrying since childhood, issues of pay, of debt. People might be carrying shame or embarrassment or fear. And if this is your partner, and maybe you know this, maybe you don't, but here's what I'm going to say. Unfortunately for you, because you're the one listening to this podcast, I'm putting this responsibility on you. Okay, heavy lies the crown. But I know that if you're listening to this podcast, you are equipped to be able to do this because you're equipped with the information, you're equipped with the forward thinking, and you are equipped, especially if you're a woman, to hold the space for your partner to be supportive and understanding and have these conversations without judgment and to keep a cool head and a supportive head and make this a safe space. If you come into this with any type of bad vibes or controlling vibes or I know everything vibes, honey, it's not going to go well.

Amber F. (31:48)
And so that's why I say, because you're the one tapping in here to old money and getting resourced in that way. I want to provide you the resource of knowing that you are a strong, emotional, capable person who's able to hear things that might be hard. Because if you are going into a money conversation and you're not prepared for what you might hear, you're going to be surprised. And things could spiral. And we don't want that to happen. We want to have continual, positive money conversations. And that's why I'm chunking them out in very small topics or very small homework assignments and I just want to remind you to hold the space and keep the cool head. Okay. A couple of other things to take into consideration is that if you are in a money conversation and things are going sideways, knowing when to pull the rip cord for the parachute, it's okay to get help. It's okay to get some support really quickly.

Amber F. (32:41)
And that's where if you start to have these conversations and things start to feel like they're bigger than you can handle, you get to say, okay, this is more than I have capacity to know how to handle. I want to call in some reinforcements, whether that's the counselor through your church or it's a fiduciary. There's one linked on the sponsors page of my website. You guys, if you need somebody, if you need some support from a counseling perspective, going to get support doesn't mean you're broken. It means you're willing to get better. And so if you need help, call in the experts. The experts, however, are not your family members. Do not, I repeat, do not get your family involved. And I mean family of origin. So your parents, your brothers, your sisters, your aunts, your uncles, this is your new chosen family.

Amber F. (33:28)
Your partner. You are committed to your partner, and this is not your opportunity to go spill your dirty laundry with anybody else outside of your partnership. I think that just trust and fidelity in that way is so important. Do not get your family involved. It is the number one thing that I see ruin relationships so quickly of when other people think they know better for you than you know. You are a capable adult, capable of making decisions for you and your partner. That doesn't mean you know everything, but it does mean that you will keep it private because you owe that to yourself and your partner. And the other thing that I want to say, too, is that if you find out that your partner has committed financial infidelity, then that means hiding debt, overspending, lying about money, a gambling problem. It's not your turn to take the next step in the relationship because a financial infidelity like that is just the same as an emotional or sexual one. And you need to get help and heal that before you can decide whether or not you want to move forward.

Amber F. (34:26)
Okay, again, calling in the experts and not getting your family involved. A couple other things to look out for. I pulled this article from Investopedia, which talks about power plays in relationships, which is something to look out for. And the power play can occur in a couple of different scenarios. For example, if one person has a paid job and the other doesn't. Or both partners would like to be working, but one is unemployed, or maybe one spouse earns more than the other. Or one partner is coming from a family that has money and the other doesn't. It's basically when there's inequity in the financial status of one partner to the other, and that's nearly always going to happen. But if you see a power play where one person is trying to take control, often the person who has or makes the most money wants to dictate the couple's priorities in spending, saving, investing, et cetera. So you need to watch out for that.

Amber F. (35:18)
That's another thing to throw the red flag for, or the yellow flag. If you're a football fan, stop the game and call in some support in a very loving way. Don't get mad about it. Just get help quickly, not your family. And then also, psychology today had a really interesting article about the reasons, the most common reasons for divorce. And usually it's communication and relationship issues, like relationship quality issues. But money disagreements are one of the most significant reasons why people break up. But it's because often triggered by things like unemployment or job loss or significant expenditures that were unexpected, like medical bills, and then having to deal with that, all of these issues, when those things come up, will bring up issues within a spouse. They can, I should say, of perceived worth or inadequacy. It can start a power play.

Amber F. (36:10)
It can lead to mistrust and resentment. And that's what really leads to the problems in the relationship, which is why having these conversations up front of being like, how are we going to handle these things? Are so, so important. And then again, you've got to remember that as you're going into, if you're going into marriage or a domestic partnership, when you create a legal arrangement around your relationship, it actually becomes legally not yours or mine and ours situation. So the power play becomes irrelevant because from the letter of the law, it all becomes community property and shared. So if one person makes more than the other, it doesn't matter. It goes into a pooled type of environment. And of course, you can come back at me and say, well, amber, if we do a prenup, blah, blah, blah, like it's different. Yes, you're totally right. But in the majority of situations, it's going to be more beneficial for your relationship to pool your resources.

Amber F. (37:04)
So like I said, you can go further, faster. In fact, I'm going to interrupt this whole rant before we get into the framework for these money meetings to answer a question a little bit of mailbox money, if you will, from somebody named Claudia who asked, would love to hear your take on a successful woman merging finances or not with a man you will marry. This is such a common question. Claudia, thank you for writing in, by the way. I love when you guys submit letters. I have so many printed and stacked on my desk right now. If you have a letter, it's oldmoneypodcast@gmail.com. You can send an email. You can also go to oldmoneypodcast.com and send one anonymously through the website. I will not read your name if you do not want me to, just leave me a note.

Amber F. (37:44)
But I so appreciate you guys reaching out, and I want to get all of your questions answered. So they're right here on my desk, and we will get to them. But this one, we talk about this a little bit in the prenup Playbook podcast with Nat Lily Goldberg. But basically, there was a study that shows that people who kept their finances completely separate actually experienced less relationship satisfaction overall because it felt like, why am I in this relationship? And this was like an actual longitudinal study that was double blind tested or whatever the heck they say. I linked the study to that in that podcast show. Note, by the way, if you're interested, and I think this is a very personal question and there's no right answer, there's no one way to do it. I mean, you each have a separate account, and then there's a shared joint account for household expenses. Excuse me. You could totally merge all of your finances together, and it could all be one.

Amber F. (38:34)
I mean, you can keep them totally separate and then have savings goals in shared accounts, other places. There's a million ways to set it up, and it's what you really feel comfortable with. And you won't feel comfortable until you have all of the information about where you're at and where your partner's at. So I want to jump into, Claudia, I know. I'm telling you, it depends. That's such an annoying answer. But the reality is, it depends. And I think the way that you can make that decision on what you want to do is by asking really good questions. Okay. I love that phrase that says, if you want good answers, you have to ask better questions.

Amber F. (39:11)
Right? And so today's framework, I have all of these amazing, easy money meetings that have just a few questions per money meeting that I would recommend you walk through with your partner to go through and learn about each other financially. Okay, so I have, let's see, 1234 different money meetings. These are mini money meetings to have with your spouse, your partner, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your fiance, whoever it might be, to answer these questions separately. So you have a little bit of homework, and then you come to the meeting with your answers prepared to discuss. Each of these money meetings only have, like, four or five questions in them because they can get heavy. I would expect you would spend 30 to 60 minutes discussing these things. And we talked about this in another episode of how to have a positive money meeting. This is really like 101 of getting started starting from scratch. So if you were following the framework from the previous podcast episode where we talked about these meetings, you could really put these into play, too.

Amber F. (40:15)
In a partnership way. I think it's always good to reassess these. Maybe you do these on an annual basis, but there are four different categories. There's the starting point, the vision of the future, shared responsibilities, and then execution. So those are the titles of the four different mini money meetings. And again, we'll put these up on social media this week sometime with all the questions listed out for the four different money meetings. So you can bookmark it, you can send it to your spouse on social media, by the way, on Instagram. It's at Old Money podcast. But anyway, let's go through the framework of each of these. Again, they're going to start as homework assignments, and then you come to the table to talk about them with your spouse. So mini money meeting number one, say that five times fast is the starting point. Okay. So, again, these questions, they might be bigger questions than you're expecting answers to. You do not know what you're getting into with your spouse. Again, starting the conversation about even having money meetings might be a challenge for you.

Amber F. (41:11)
Go back to that previous episode and listen for my tips there of how to initiate this. But I think these are absolute must in relationships. And the starting point is coming up with a really healthy way to learn more about your partner through some kind of anecdotal evidence. So the first question in the starting point framework is, what are some of your early memories of money? How did your parents talk about money? What feelings do you feel when you think about money? So the reason we're asking this question is to tap into the psychology of our partners and ourselves so we have some sort of basis before we dive into everything else. So, for example, that's the first question you ask your partner, and they tell you, oh, my God, my parents were so stressed about money. We never had enough. We were always in debt.

Amber F. (41:56)
My parents are floating checks. You're going to have a little bit more into their psychology of where they might come from, the place of anxiety or fear around money, and you have some awareness around that, what are some of your earliest memories of money can really help you kind of be a psychologist in a way, of your partner and of yourself to say, oh, wow, even though that's an early memory, maybe that feels disempowering or empowering. Like if your first memory of money is setting up a lemonade stand and being able to earn, you might feel a lot of confidence in the fact that you can make money no matter what circumstances are, because that was something that was ingrained in you from a very young age. But if your earliest memory of money is saying, with your parents, I'm going to get an allowance of $2 a week, and then your parents lying to you and saying, no, I gave it to you already. But you as a child were like, no, they didn't give me my money.

Amber F. (42:46)
And maybe it's because your parents were too busy and they forgot, or maybe they didn't have the extra cash, or it wasn't a priority to them, whatever it might have been, it's not to blame your parent. It's to recognize that's going to program in you as a young child. Some insecurity, maybe around your ability to get money or to trust that people will show up for you. And how powerful is that when you're talking about blending finances with somebody? So sharing that, if that's your story, for example, with your partner, is going to be a really powerful way for you guys to relate to each other, to know where your starting point is. Right where you're starting from an emotional standpoint with money, the next question is one that I love, which is, what would you do if you received a windfall? I'm talking an inheritance. That was unexpected. You have that rich uncle, you win the lottery, you get a bonus from work, all of these things, all the ways you could get a windfall. Dream, baby.

Amber F. (43:39)
I want you to know, if you get a $25,000 bonus, if you want a million dollars from the lottery, what are you doing with that money? That's going to help you and your partner figure out what your priorities are and also your dreams. Because this is not just about saving for retirement, right? This is about putting your resources together so you can live your best life. If your number one thing is that you're going to quit your job and travel the world because you want to see the pyramids of Giza and the markets in Bangkok or whatever it might be. You're going to know when your priorities is travel, and if your partner is like, well, I'm going to buy a farm and start homesteading, and I'm going to build it from scratch and I'm going to live off the grid, and you're like, I'm going to buy a luxury penthouse in New York City. You guys have different priorities, right? And that's worth discussing. But the framework of anything could happen is a more fun framework. So that's why we like to be a little bit experimental in that way.

Amber F. (44:31)
The next thing is going to be ranking ten at the most of your money related priorities for the next five years. Okay? So I know it's a little confusing. I want you to list out priorities. Anything that is a priority for you in your life within the next five years, just write ten of them on a list. Okay? This could be quitting your job and starting a business, it could be having a wedding, it could be traveling for your honeymoon, it could be saving for retirement, catching up on your 401K, starting to invest more, maxing out your accounts, building up an emergency fund, having a kid, getting a dog, anything that's going to require money. Moving, combining households, getting a new car. I could go on forever. Anything that's going to require money, write it down on a list. Just write it down. Just pick ten. Don't go overboard. I think ten is more or ten is enough. Excuse me, but I think for anything within the next five years, write it down and then you're going to rank them one to ten.

Amber F. (45:27)
One being the most important, ten being the least important on that list. Now, they're your priorities, so they're all important to you, but I want you to rank them one to ten. Then when you come to the table with your partner, you're going to go through your lists together and look at them so you can see where your partner's priorities are. This is not a competition of whose priorities are right. This is just exploring what the priorities are so that you have awareness to them. The negotiation on that is going to come later. And then the last part of this conversation, which might actually be the hardest question of all of them, of all of the mini money meetings, this might be the hardest one. It's bring to your table. Bring to the table. What are your assets and liabilities and what is your net worth?

Amber F. (46:05)
I'm talking about consumer credit card debt, student loans, mortgages, car payments, how much is in your bank account. Understanding what you have and what you're bringing to the table is required for financial fidelity, you would owe it to your partner if you're going to combine finances, and your partner owes it to you to be completely transparent about what you're bringing into the relationship, including things like debt. So that can be something that is a little bit more tricky to navigate. And it's all just about laying it on the table. Remember, you as the one listening to this podcast gets to be the supportive spouse and not judge and not launch into a fight from this. But it is your responsibility to raise your hand if you see something that makes you uncomfortable and know when to bring in an expert for support if you need it. Mini muddy meeting number two should be a week later. Something like that. Again, you're going to do your homework ahead of time and come to the table prepared to discuss. And this one is all about the vision of the future.

Amber F. (47:06)
So the first thing that I think you should talk about is work. What are your ideas about your career? Like, what do you want to do with your career? Do you work currently for a company and you want to start a business? Do you want to advance within your company? Do you want to be changing jobs? Do you want to be not working after you have a baby? And does your partner know that? So having these ideas about your career and whether it's staying with your company and growing there, it's really important to discuss what your visions are for working. The second thing on that is disclosing how much you earn and what your earning growth potential is.

Amber F. (47:42)
So if you're currently earning right now, a certain level, but after three years, you'll be able to get this new qualification where your salary bump is expected to be x. These are projections and I think it's really important to talk about that with your partner, inclusive of what your benefits are, what your employee stock purchase opportunities are. If you have equity, anything like that, this is the time to get granular and share where you're at and where you believe you're going. But number three, question number three is what happens if one person decides to stop working? And I say decides, but I want to make this a bigger question than just childcare or a woman choosing to not work after becoming a mother. Because what if it's not about decides to stop working, but what if it can't work anymore? What happens if one person stops working due to health reasons, childcare, if one person gets laid off? Or maybe just because they don't want to do it anymore? Maybe it's mental health reasons. What happens if one person decides to stop working?

Amber F. (48:45)
Does that mean the other person picks up the slack. Do you have an emergency fund set up for this? What is the plan to do? You have to move. I mean, what is the plan if one person stops working? That's a really important question to have. It's going to reframe your financial priorities moving forward. The next thing, again, this category is called vision of the future. What's your target for retirement? What are your expectations there? Some people might have a target retirement date of 35. Some people might think they are going to work till 65. Some people might say, I assume we're going to have no money at that time and live in a trailer. Some people say, I want to be fat, fired. I want to have a fat, financially independent, retire early life where we ball out and go big and we still have a $250,000 a year income when I'm not working anymore.

Amber F. (49:35)
Those expectations, target dates, are so important to make sure you're clear on because it's going to change the projection of your goals for what you need to save or earn in order to retire. Or are you the type of person who doesn't want to retire? You want to be working all of the time. You want to have a business. You want to pass that on to your children or nieces or nephews. I mean, these are conversations that I think are really important to dream about and talk about in the vision of the future. The next thing is another kind of like plan B. What's the backup plan? Type of thing, which is what happens if you need to ask for help. What would you do in case of a financial emergency?

Amber F. (50:12)
For example, if you have an accident and you have medical bills that you can't pay? If you lose your job, for example, if something unknown, something scary happens that's going to impact your ability to make money or to get out of debt. What are your boundaries or parameters as a couple of what you're going to need to do to ask for help? One person might find a ton of comfort and an opportunity to say, oh, we'll just go ask my parents. The other partner might not feel the same. Or maybe you might say, we're going to have to take out a HeLOC, a home equity line of credit on our house. One person might say, absolutely not. One person might say, we'll get a personal loan. One person might say, we're going to put it on credit cards. I think these conversations are really important to have so that you can share what your comfort level is, so that in the case of emergency, you guys have an example already laid out of what you think would be most supportive for one another.

Amber F. (51:04)
And you can respect that when you're out of a high pressure emotional situation. You're talking about it now before anything bad has happened. When your brains are nice and activated and clear, you have unconditional positive regard for one another. And you can keep this in mind in the future. And then the last question, okay, so this is still a mini money meeting, and this is six questions. I do acknowledge that, but the last question for this mini money meeting is, my biggest dream in life is too blank. Now, your biggest dream in life might have some financial implications on it. My biggest dream in life might be to be a mother, or to open a chow chow rescue farm, or to sail around the world in a sailboat and not have a house. It might be to live next door to my sister. I don't even have a sister.

Amber F. (51:49)
But whatever it might be, your biggest dream in life is blank. And what are the financial implications of that? Or what needs to happen so that that dream can come alive for you? So this mini money meeting is all about dreaming and about visions of the future. And the next money meeting, again, have it a week or two later, is going to be about shared responsibilities. This is a little bit more tactical, but again, it's not about making the decisions right now. It's just about having the discussion of what you think. These are pretty quick questions. So it's just about asking yourself and your partner what you think would be best and then coming to the table to have a discussion. So the first one is, do you envision having joint accounts, independent accounts, or a mix?

Amber F. (52:30)
How would you like to set that up? How would that be most supportive to you? Remember, if you're getting married, California is a community property state. So regardless of how you have your account set up, if you do not have a prenup in place, everything you earn after you are married is community property. The next question is, who will be responsible for money decisions and what type of money decisions. So there's a couple of things here. You could talk about day to day expenditures. You could talk about overall budgeting, saving. If you have investments, who's going to be responsible for making the investment decisions? So who's picking what funds we invest into things like that? Is that something that one person is going to take ownership of? Are you going to share that responsibility? And if one person's going to take ownership, what's the reporting and or involvement that they can give to the other person? It cannot just be put all on one person. Don't you dare, ladies.

Amber F. (53:22)
Give your money away to some man to go invest for you without you knowing what's going on with it. Don't you dare. Do not make Teresa Judicia's mistake. She went to jail, y'all, for signing paperwork that she didn't know what she was signing. So if you're going to split responsibilities, you still need to figure out how you're going to involve the other person. But I do think it's important to divide and conquer. So again, monthly budgeting, investing meeting with the fiduciary, who's going to file the taxes? Who's going to set up the trusts, all these different things. And that's the next question is, do you have or need trusts or wills or prenups or anything that's set up financially and who's going to do it? Do you need it?

Amber F. (54:01)
So the shared responsibility conversation is really just about how you envision things moving forward in managing your financial life. And I think it's a pretty easy conversation because the next one, the next mini money meeting is all about execution. Now, we are going back through everything that we learned and we're going to take action on it. So, number one, who is setting up the accounts and what needs to be set up? So this goes back to the shared responsibilities conversation. After you guys have had a discussion about it, are you setting up more joint accounts? Are you doing independent accounts, et cetera, et cetera. The next question is, are we going to be budgeting for this period in our life and how are we going to do that? So I just started using Monarch money. They're not yet a sponsor of the show, but I'm working on it.

Amber F. (54:46)
You guys, I will get you a discount code. I'm working with Monarch money or not working with, but I put my budgeting there. It is a paid program that you can go on to do your budgeting for you. If you're just looking to track spending, I actually prefer the program. YNAB, you need a budget. YNAB.com, you need a budget. If you google it, you'll find it. That's really good for just tracking spending if that's something that you need to do to get your combined joint finances together. But the thing I like about monarch money is that you can invite two partners to participate in the same account, and then you can combine your goals, your investment accounts, your net worth, all these different things. You can look at it in two different views together and separate.

Amber F. (55:28)
I think it's really important to have total financial transparency that's something that I like to do so that you know where you're at with your partner at any given time. I think it's really good to build trust in that way. So monarch money for tracking spending, setting goals, that is a big piece of execution. Who's going to set that all up? I think you need to delegate it out. Now, the next thing going back to the first questions in the starting point meeting is let's look at the priorities and let's agree on what our next five priorities are. So you both came to the table with ten priorities ranked listed out of what is important for you in the next five years. What you need to find are your top in common priorities. Those are your priorities. So if one person's priority is a wedding and that's nowhere else on the list, it's going to require further discussion about what the priority or what that shows up as a priority in your couple's life.

Amber F. (56:21)
If one person doesn't care about it at all, okay, if, for example, you both know, okay, we're going to need to buy a car in the next five years because ours is going to blow up. You're going to need to start taking steps to reaching those goals. That might be setting up a high yield savings account. Again, I am a big fan of capital one. You can set up joint accounts for Capital one where you both can contribute high yield savings account. You could be earning four and a half to more than that percentage of interest right now if you sign up just because of the interest rate environment. And again, you can go further together than you ever would alone. So if you're both contributing by doing automatic withdrawals from your checking account on your payday, right into your savings, you're going to start funding savings accounts really quickly. And again, the reason I like Capital one is because you can set up individual nicknamed accounts so that they all have their own job, right? If you guys decide that your top three priorities are taking a vacation and using HC travel firm for that vacation, just wait till you hear that podcast episode.

Amber F. (57:26)
You guys, I'm so excited. And you're like, okay, our budget for our next travel is like $12,000. We need to save $12,000. You guys put that as your priority and you're going to save together to reach that goal. If you know you're going to get married, you need to figure out what your budget is for that and you're going to start saving for it. If you want to be investing more, you need to be putting to joint brokerage accounts together or figuring out what you're going to do and then working on your investment strategy. This is your chance for you to start figuring out what your priorities are. And then on your next money meetings, you can get into the weeds of all of these things. But this one, you're just figuring out what the priorities are. So you're looking for the top few in common, and those are your shared priorities as a couple.

Amber F. (58:10)
And then the next thing that I think is really important to do is ask, what's our homework and when is it due? I. E, when are we having our next meeting? It's so important. I do this in business. I do this with Justin. It's like if we have a meeting now, when's our next one? When's the next one happening? If you don't put it on the calendar, it's unlikely that it will show up on its own. So you need to make that a part of your monthly or weekly money meeting agenda. Point is, when is our next meeting and what needs to be done by then? So as you've delegated responsibilities in this execution phase of the money meeting, now that person has their to dos and they need to go execute them. So to take it from the top and just run it back again. The old money guide to getting engaged. Five steps.

Amber F. (58:54)
Love that. Celebrate. Ensure your ring. Buy a safe. Retain an attorney to help you draft a prenup. Get more intentional about your relationship in whatever way makes most sense to you that's sustainable and isn't a crash diet for your relationship. And then start on your money meetings. And then your money meetings, your mini money meetings for this new stage of your relationship are a starting point. We are talking about early money stories and just kind of a basis of where you're at as a human being today. Emotions, all that good stuff.

Amber F. (59:23)
Number two is a vision of the future where you get to dream together about what your retirement, your work life, your dreams for life are. Number three, you're discussing shared responsibilities, like who's doing what. And then number four, you start to execute and delegate. You're going to start setting up your account, agree on your priorities, and then continue to have these money meetings as time goes on so that you have a very healthy and happy money life. The reason that we're practicing such healthy communication in such a structured way is because it provides a lot of safety in the practice.

Amber F. (59:57)
Again, you cannot just go into the Super bowl without showing up for practice first and playing the game every Sunday. So I really encourage you to hold space in your relationship to be the person that is less judgmental, that is going to give unconditional, positive regard as you navigate these super challenging conversations. Money has so much emotion attached to it, and it doesn't have to be bad emotion. It can be really positive emotion. I just talked about that on the last episode and I hope you guys can see the other side of it, that when you have financial fidelity, trust, and happiness in your financial status with your partner, you will have such a beautiful life ahead of you where everything seems possible, nothing seems too far out of reach, and you can achieve all of your dreams and do it with the person that you love.

Amber F. (01:00:45)
So thank you guys so much for all of your sweet comments about Justin and mine's engagement. And we're so excited about this time in our life. And I'm so excited because I'm such a dork about having all of these money conversations and talking about what would happen if and what we want to do when. So thank you again for being here with me and spending time on this episode. I'm just on a mission to make us all a little bit more rich.

Amber F. (01:01:09)
And you know what? We all need friends to travel with, right? So if you can take 2 seconds of your time to support the podcast by sending this to a friend who you would want to live your wealthiest life with, who you want to have split that private plane with you to get the villa in St. Bart's like somebody else, you need to get on your level of getting financially healthy and fit. Send this episode to them, please. It would mean the world. We're growing exponentially and I just want a beautiful community of rich girls to be all here with us, living our best lives. So take a second. If you haven't yet to rate, that means leaving stars review, that leaves meaning a few words and subscribing, which means checking the little plus button so that you can be a supporter of the show. I'm beyond appreciative for you doing what we can to keep building our bank accounts and this podcast by breaking through the good old boys club.

Amber F. (01:02:00)
So consider this you smashing the patriarchy today. Thank you so much for being here. I will talk to you on the next episode. Love you lots. Bye.

Resources

Episode 006: CEO Systems for Ultimate Success
Episode 020: The Prenup Playbook with Natalie Elisha Goldberg
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